CGTrader search results disappointing!

you are not the only one

Well,

https://www.cgtrader.com/search?keywords=moai (https://www.cgtrader.com/3d-models/various/various-models/moai-ultimate)
https://www.cgtrader.com/search?keywords=seahorse (https://www.cgtrader.com/3d-models/animals/fish/pacific-seahorse)
https://www.cgtrader.com/search?keywords=nest (https://www.cgtrader.com/3d-models/animals/bird/birds-nest-af463c13-26d3-4e71-9260-dd5ff5a232a1)
https://www.cgtrader.com/search?keywords=browning (https://www.cgtrader.com/3d-models/military/gun/m3-browning-hand-gun)
https://www.cgtrader.com/search?keywords=mite (https://www.cgtrader.com/3d-models/animals/insect/dust-mite-97b9a2d1-0bc9-469c-af32-3e1dc1944118)
https://www.cgtrader.com/search?keywords=dandelion (https://www.cgtrader.com/3d-models/plant/flower/dandylion-photoreal)
https://www.cgtrader.com/search?keywords=coin (https://www.cgtrader.com/3d-models/various/various-models/quarter-dollar)
etc.

Everything on the first page. What is the problem?

I think exactly the same as you. I also mentioned this in a previous form title. Newly uploaded models are ranked last in long tail and direct searches, that is, among the models that are directly linked to them. But that's not the only problem.

Let's analyze the status of your “Moai Ultimate Low-poly 3D model” model in the search results.

First of all, we need to point out that the problem started after June 2023 (I'm not exactly sure, but it could be 1-2 months earlier or later). So, if the model was loaded before this time, we can say that everything is actually working fine.

As for the "Moai Ultimate Low-poly 3D model" model, you uploaded this model months after the problem started, that is, during the period when the search algorithm was broken.

Problem 1: Irrelevant products are ranked higher.

First of all, before moving on to the problem of uploaded models being in the last place compared to other competitors, we should address the problem of irrelevant models/products being more prominent in the search results. Solving this problem without solving the other one will not make sense. Let's examine a few examples. If you pay attention to the "moai" search results we made targeting the "Moai Ultimate Low-poly 3D model" model, you will see that the following models/products are ranked higher:

“Zbrush - 20 Rock Formations and Stone Sculptures v03 3D model”

“Easter island 3d model terrain 3D model”

"The Division Bell Tribute 3D print model”

Since AI has been integrated into CGT searches, the first advantage we expect AI to provide is that it makes inferences from the user's search and brings to the fore the most suitable models in the database. However, we see that the titles of the models (even though they should be the most important element in searches) have the same or lower priority than the descriptions and model tags. The 3 models that appear in the "moai" search above are not directly related and are ranked higher than the product we are actually targeting, just because the word "moai" is mentioned in the description. (Note: This word is a search term that already has quite a few models, whether relevant or irrelevant. When you do this search, you will see that only 136 items are listed. In other words, the problem we are talking about increases to incredible levels in more competitive searches.)

I wish this was the only problem for problem 1. Please also check out this status in other searches:

In searches containing 2 or more words, if there is a model that contains these search terms separately and is both older and more successful, it is shown higher. In other words, it is very important to make separate matches instead of direct matches with the search. We would expect AI to solve such problems, not cause them…

For example:

When you search for the word "train interior", you will see that the product "Gym Equipments Low-poly 3D model" is on the first page and at the top. So why? Because the words "training" and "interior" are included in the tags. So, in fact, when you search for "train interior", this is the product. It's pretty simple for AI to understand that the product is not about that. Do many different searches and you'll see similar situations pop up even more frequently in some searches.

Problem 2: You will come in last place no matter what.

If you uploaded your model after June-July 2023, It doesn't matter how good is the keywords search, analysis, high quality and abundant preview images, detailed and effective description texts, etc. You will be in last place among the models competing directly with you. There doesn't seem to be any escape from this situation. In addition, when you click directly on the 3D models section in CGT without any search, the list of models that we call the most successful models, which generally change never or very rarely, was almost the same 1-2 years ago (that is, when the search results were working as they should). So some people say these need to be changed, but I think there is no problem there and new updates are not the reason for this general listing. We need to understand this so we can better identify problems.

Please review all links posted by @jaguarbestproduction. While all the products uploaded before the date I mentioned were very good and had the required rankings, we must say that those uploaded after this date had no chance. Moai is a good example here, but a risky one. Why is it risky? Because the sample has too low competitive (136 models) to be accurate to show

Believe me, I want CGT to work correctly and as it should. I want to see that the conversations we have here are taken into consideration by the CGT team, because I think one of the biggest criteria for CGT to become a more robust asset market is "Search Results". Yes, there are too many assets now and this is true. It can be said that it is very difficult or even impossible to analyze whether preview images fully represent the product in question by a human or by an algorithm that does not use AI, but AI can now scan and analyze both texts and images very effectively. This is truly a great advantage, but unfortunately we have not yet been able to take advantage of it in CGT. I hope this problem will be solved as soon as possible.

Think its best practices to spread you work about and have external links to help with searches and hopefully this will translate and drive your sales! I also think you have some odd choices for your tags/key words for the you brain model for example........mastermind, perfect, beautiful. Its not a perfect science and it can be tricky sometimes to work these out but if someone was searching for a 3D model of a brain would they use those key words in a search!?

I have exactly the same issue, the majority of models uploaded recently (maybe since a bit more than one year) have a big visibility problem, i have uploaded last year a large quantity of models but apart from some exceptions there is almost no sales at all ! it wasn't like that before ! it looks like cgtrader algorithms to show models have changed a lot but this will discourage sellers to upload new models ! i'm almost having sales only from old models, however i remember that before it was the opposite, cgtrader was the place for new models to have their chance, i understand that they change algorithms to prioritize models with already many sales or good reviews but not to the point where new models are almost invisible, why i will continue to upload new models then !?

The date of search change is 2023 August 23 +/- couple days. The fact that cgtrader doesn't do anything about it for 8 months despite numerous complaints from sellers, most likely means that the change has been done deliberately and there's not much we can do about it, but suck it up. Apparently cgtrader does not want to sell new models anymore. Why do they still accept them for publishing? IDK, maybe for AI training?

Yes, algorithms have changed a lot. It would be nice if there were more comments (and even better if these are detailed comments with links to models).

Information from this topic https://www.cgtrader.com/forum/site-suggestions-and-feedback/when-will-they-fix-it already has been submitted for consideration by the CGT team. All comments from here will also be considered. Thanks to all.

I still get the same if not more sales than previous years (always best to judge from year to year instead of monthly due to summer in Europe, sales events, etc). What I found works best is similar to what @JimPlatt said, good keywords, good external references (search engine results) etc, will bring you more sales. Make sure your descriptions are thorough, contain all the important information the customer needs and is well thought out. Think like the customer basically, they are looking for something specific usually, they will use particular words to look for things they need, if you dont think about this then you will suffer.

I, like everyone else, have very few views of my work in six months, 50 views each.

I definitely encountered similar issues last year (2023) regarding views, but this year has shown improvement. I believe it also hinges on the pricing of the model; scores have never influenced me. Models priced above $20 tend to garner fewer views compared to those priced below $15 on my list. Views on newly uploaded models have improved over the last 2-3 months.

However, sales of models have not seen improvement since April 2023. Models usually sell more during sales periods, particularly with discounts of 50%-70%. Even during discount sales, reducing the discount to 30-40% leads to decreased sales. Compared to my previous experience on CGT, sales were much better before April 2023, showing consistent monthly growth. Now, I'm struggling to reach half of my previous sales.

This could be attributed to the rise of AI, which affects nearly every professional field. Also I think CGT should reconsider promoting it, as the platform was exceptional without it. Humans at Team CGT was performing way better than AI. Low sales are also may be due to Inflation and frequent discount sales may also play a role. People might be opting for models with lower pricing or waiting for sales to purchase at a discount.

Search results have definitely become worse since the addition of "ai". Regardless of quality, it seems new models are shoved to the bottom and even searching for specific tags seems broken.

Something seems to have been improved from a few weeks back. Last time I noticed problems with search, it was giving me few results and seemed entirely broken. Checking again today, it seems better, more what I'd expect.

Nonetheless, CGTrader needs to focus on expanding what already works for the site and stop playing with pet-projects. Expand analytics, improved search, making the platform a better experience for buyers and sellers. Other sites are doing AI better and while CGT is dabbling in unnecessary add-ons, decent features are falling apart or simply haven't been improved upon.

I have exactly same issues started May 2023 which caused sales dropped by half and has not restored since then considering that we are improving models constantly. And we completely lost motivation to upload new cities due the visibility issue

In case of the search engine, the AI is most likely a short for Absolutely Incompetent.

The company that designed it for CGT, is more then a century old.
They made the Iceberg Detection System for the Titanic.
The end result seems to be pretty much the same...

I also noticed that newly uploaded models doesn't get much views as before, I don't know whether the score system has anything to do with it.
The score system needs to go, It doesn't reflect model quality whatsoever.

Yes there has been a major downturn in sales for anything loaded since 23-Aug-2023 (or thereabouts). I've loaded hundreds of files since then and very, very few of them have sold. The sales I'm still getting are for items loaded before this time.

More specifically, items loaded since Aug last year are getting virtually no views, and without views there will be no sales. This seems to be the result of the search ranking mechanism rather than the actual search results. What's happening is that the search results are purely ranked by their age, with old items first and new items last, meaning that customers never bother to look low enough on the search list to actually get to the new items. This was not the case prior to the Aug change, before this time newer items had a boost which put them near the front and therefore gave them a chance to compete against items which may have been in the store for years. What's happening now is that customers are seeing the same old tired items over and over each time they do any form of search, which makes the entire store look old and worn down.

I would suggest to simply roll back whatever changes were implemented in Aug ASAP and get the search ranking mechanism back to where it was and working properly again. This would quickly fix the situation for anything new that gets loaded. But there is still a problem with items already loaded since Aug, and really some sort of a boost should be given to them to help them out, otherwise all those items are lost in limbo forever, and will never get views. In my case that represents hundreds of items. But that is a secondary issue, just rolling back the change in the first instance would be a great start.

As a further to this, the "quality checking" mechanism is frankly ludicrous and just doesn't work. Almost all of my items have been given a rank of 0%, which should never be the case because just including FBX format (all of my items have this format) gives you some points. It's also frankly wrong, many of the items I've been marked down on are simply incorrect, like for example being told there is no normal map, when there is. Many of the checks are also utterly meaningless and have nothing to do with quality at all, like for example including a dash ("-") in your filenames gets you marked down. The quality ranking systems is giving customers an incorrect view of the actual quality of an item, and many customers may pass an item by because of incorrect down marking. I've had actual customers say this to me. I would recommend that the quality ranking mechanism is abandoned immediately, it's just wrong on so many levels and costing sales.

Yep! Its a search engine that just can't be bothered with new models.

I just uploaded a new model, and called it Worker Ant. I left it a few hours for it to sink into the system (though I don't know if that makes a difference) then searched directly for it, using the title. "Worker Ant"

I got about 3 or 4 Ant models and then pages of models of labourers and builders and such. As a human when I hear "worker ant" I'm not really thinking Human labourers, but I guess the AI seems to take every word literally and doesn't get the whole message. Still I would think my model would show up as no other models are called the same.
Needless to say when searching "ant" there are loads of ant models, but my model is nowhere to be seen.

Here's the model, if you feel like giving it a view bump. :)
https://www.cgtrader.com/3d-models/animals/insect/worker-ant-2836fa57-779e-4cc9-98ad-e0f2ae7e87f8

Few hours? Are you serious? Of course, you are not a newbie, but still don’t you think that you are already going too far with your accusations regarding a new search engine on CGT?

Even if Vitaly Bulgarov registered here and put up for sale models like characters for Mortal Shell, I don’t think that in less than a day they would have taken leading positions in the search without price filters etc. And that's absolutely normal.

Your model is available in search (and these are not the most recent positions):

https://www.cgtrader.com/search?page=2&keywords=Worker%20Ant&price_range[]=range_50_100
https://www.cgtrader.com/3d-models/bug?price_range[]=range_50_100
https://www.cgtrader.com/3d-models/insect?page=2&price_range[]=range_50_100

Just wondering, what result did you expect? That in a few hours your model will be here https://www.cgtrader.com/search?keywords=Worker%20Ant on 1-3 pages only with best match filter among 5984 models?

He expects to get ANTS if he searches for ANTS. What a strange expectation.
I counted about 7 ant models in the first 1000 search results in your last link.

Well,

https://www.cgtrader.com/search?page=5&keywords=ant
https://www.cgtrader.com/search?page=17&keywords=Worker%20Ant

5 from 83 and 17 from 50 pages is a bad result for a model uploaded 1 day ago?

Well,

if this site didn't ruined search algo he would be on the first page because there would be only one page.

https://www.turbosquid.com/Search/Index.cfm?keyword=worker+ant

Yeah and how are sales on Turbosquid? Ok? Surely incomparably higher than on CGTrader.

By the way (if you want a comparison) what do you say about this?

https://www.cgtrader.com/search?keywords=long-haul+plane
https://www.turbosquid.com/Search/Index.cfm?keyword=long-haul+plane&media_typeid=2

Is it generally correct to compare Turbosquid and CGTrader? Considering that the first is no longer a standalone marketplace but a part of the Shutterstock.

And most importantly. Sales on Turbosquid growing? Thanks to such an accurate search, sellers don't have time to calculate their fabulous income or is everything much more modest? Or maybe sketchfab, which is also part of a corporation. https://sketchfab.com/search?q=worker+ant&type=models only ants. And what?

It's like going to the clothing store for a black shirt but shop assistant keeps telling white cars are better for you, but if you really want a black shirt you can go to the end of warehouse a maybe some shirts will be laying there.
"We had black shirts right behind the door before but it was too ordinary so now we are AI clothing store a here are some fabulous cars for you which is completely normal phenomenon".
And if you don't like it you should be aware that other clothing shops have also low sales.

Pressing one or several buttons is a search at the end of the warehouse?

Ok, I am a buyer, I need an ant model.

https://www.cgtrader.com/search?keywords=worker%20ant&suggested_keywords=character
https://www.cgtrader.com/search?keywords=worker%20ant&suggested_keywords=insect
https://www.cgtrader.com/search?keywords=ant&suggested_keywords=insect
etc.

In the "worst" case there are three search pages. Search is very flexible.

You should introduce yourself, tell us who you are and what is your position at CGT.
Maybe that will help us to understand why you keep defending obvious CGT mistakes and why it's not a waste of time discussing anything with you.

Unfortunately, the topic of broken search has been raised many times, but no one has solved anything.
They broke the search and I think there is no point in adding something new, because you will still be far behind those who added models before August 23, 23. And all these promises make no sense. The models I added before were consistently selling, even though they were of a lower quality. Now I make better models with PBR textures, with popular formats, and even with YouTube videos. And they don't sell. And I don't care what that AI thinks, I and a lot of other designers don't make a profit. This is a problem that does not encourage us to add more new models.

Look for example at "tram" category. There are 7 pages of search result.
1th page OK. But from 2nd page the result begins to be more and more messy.
On the 2nd page you already find models like street trash bins, shopping carts, excavators, railway stations, bridges etc.
And what happens if relevant model (which have correctly assigned tags) are placed on much worse position behind absolutely irrelevant models?
Customers stop browsing on the 2nd page when they see total mess and models which they are not looking for.
And this is AI search result?
The CGT "AI" searching is total joke and something what only sounds "SO COOOL" but reality is that it is absolutely disfunctional. I really doubpt that there is some true AI algorithm.
Why TS does not implement these non-senses like AI searching? Instead of this CGT "AI" the search result on TS is much more accurate, clean and not so messy. And this is what most customers prefer.

And it is problem as many artists already mentioned it.
Your newly published models (with correctly assigned tags) are placed behind older totally irrelevant models which do not belong to given category.

Why are shoes uploaded to the script section?
https://www.cgtrader.com/3d-models/scripts-plugins/modelling/heels-0abaac6d-5b47-4521-aac1-3d85adbd8f91

or this,
https://www.cgtrader.com/3d-models/scripts-plugins/modelling/instagram-logo-316662ce-210a-4833-98f5-92f4dd449938
https://www.cgtrader.com/3d-models/scripts-plugins/modelling/black-sneakers-shoes
https://www.cgtrader.com/3d-models/scripts-plugins/modelling/guitar-8f0ebdef-d19b-4d2f-be9d-fbe9a13fa597
https://www.cgtrader.com/3d-models/scripts-plugins/modelling/kettle-black-electric
etc.

Why for example here:
https://www.cgtrader.com/3d-models/vehicle/other/cable-car-ski-lift-e2d33590-7623-46ac-bb90-e50f741d6b4a
https://www.cgtrader.com/3d-models/industrial/other/plastic-basket-1546b9ab-6c48-450d-aa45-b0f3c3f79fea
https://www.cgtrader.com/3d-models/various/various-models/stainless-steel-medical-drugs-trolley

used tags (including "tram") that have nothing to do with the models.

Is this another AI trick and the new search algorithm, yeah? Really?

jaguarbeast: you as CGT connected person are asking why are some models in incorrect category?
So I am asking why CGT admins do not place them into correct category like on TS where products categories are checked (and sometimes changed/removed) by admins.
BTW search result on CGT is mostly based od tags or product name. And this is the most important source of mess and category spamming because artists here are encouraged to add as many tags as possible.

Problem is not if "shoe" model is in "scripts" category/section.
Problem is if "shoe" model has tags: airplane, house, train, car, space_ship, horse, trousers, jacket etc.

The fact that there is no strict moderation here is really a problem. Regarding the question why. Why doesn't anyone take into account that Turbosquid has a much larger team?

Regarding search, relevance and quality of models. When searching in any section, do you often find outright trash on the first 5-10 pages? If yes, it will be interesting to know in which categories.

Well, new fresh model
https://www.cgtrader.com/3d-models/furniture/other/suitcase-3d-illustration

When go to "Other" subcategory, opens https://www.cgtrader.com/3d-models
After click on tag "object" opens https://www.cgtrader.com/not_found
With click on tag "other" opens https://www.cgtrader.com/3d-models

Here,
https://www.cgtrader.com/3d-models/space/other/metal-kitbash
similar, when you click on a subcategory opens https://www.cgtrader.com/3d-models

https://www.cgtrader.com/3d-models/exterior/sci-fi-exterior/sci-fi-building-006-industry-pbr
After click on tag "kitbash" opens https://www.cgtrader.com/not_found

Who has the same bugs (possibly with other tags and categories)?

Jaguar, i honestly don't understand your position. Instead of collecting user complaints and presenting them to the cgtrader team, you're seemingly trying your best to defend the system and painting black as white. Of course you can find most obscure and ridiculous examples which "proves" that system is working, but we sellers with 10+ years of experience are seeing search is clearly broken. In fact search was never great at cgtrader, but now it's completely fucked up. I don't know who benefits from this mess, obviously not sellers and not customers.

Unfortunately the Ai if it is not trained by people can only make messes...
I using it for a year and I realized that it can be very stupid... if it is not corrected for our purposes.
On the contrary, if trained it can give important results.
Obviously if 3D artists see their work rarely displayed... they will lose interest in creating new things...

I think the general consensus is that we are all invested in CG Trader, and we like it and want it to do well.
I much prefer it to Turbosquid. I like the reward system. CGT offers sellers a higher percentage, which means they can keep the prices low.
What I most liked about it though, were my models would be seen, and not drowned out by the huge numbers of models that are on Turbosquid.
I wanted to get my number of models up to 100 this year, but on witnessing such poor results on new models, I think that's unlikely to happen.

This seems to be an ongoing complaint that is not being addressed, and it needs to be.
I hope someone from CGTrader will come on here address some points, let us know what actions they plan to take, and actually do something about it.

yes definitely something is wrong with search results that has discouraged me to post new models.
like for example the last model I posted was a pendant of Goku. when you search Goku pendant, there are a couple of Goku pendants in the beginning then like 9 pages of unrelated models mostly Indian gods/goddesses that have absolutely no connection with Goku pendant nor Goku is in their tags and only after the 9th page my model appears.

It absolutely doesn't make sense and as a customer when they search Goku pendant they need to see all Goku pendants in the beginning from the most viewed/rated to the least and after that should come unrelated result or things they shouldn't even be there

please CGT please fix the search, it doesn't serve the customers or the artists in any way!

absolutely yes, this is a series problem on cgtrader.
I've already made a topic regarding this issue. https://www.cgtrader.com/forum/general-discussions/it-s-been-4-month-that-the-number-of-views-on-the-new-models-has-significantly-decreased
since September of last year the number of views on the new models I upload has significantly decreased. despite no change in the quality of the models.
from that date, the views on new models have decreased by about 80%, and the sales of these models are almost zero. I'm not new to Cgtrader and have many models, so I'm familiar with the usual statistics of model views. Any sales I have are from my older models.
Some creators suspect that algorithm changes on the CGTrader platform may be responsible for this decline.
The search engine now appears to favor older models, pushing newer ones down the list.
Models published after a certain date are often buried at the bottom of search results, regardless of their quality or relevance 2.
This shift has left many newer models struggling to gain visibility.
Honestly, now that new models seem to go unnoticed, I've lost interest in uploading new models

First of all, I am sorry that you are suffering from this, for me it started in April 23 and lasted all year, December was a disastrous month when it is always one of the best.

I insist that you contact support, try to add all possible data that demonstrates your lost sales, using the Dashboard for example, marking "lifetime" in the Earning section. It will be much easier for support to help you with that type of data. (In my case, a stoppage could be seen throughout 2023.) Something strange considering that it had many more products and better quality.

I recommend patience and that you insist if they do not answer you in a reasonable time or do not give you a satisfactory answer (you may be unlucky and someone lazy will attend to you).

In my case, this year I'm finally starting to see the light, it seems that even though I haven't recovered visits, sales are being made slightly higher than the previous period. (I really prefer sales than visits)

But as I tell you, I have insisted and have provided all the evidence I could that showed the decline.

At the moment I can say that it seems that improvements are being made and it may take some time for all of us to notice these improvements, so you should not forget to contact support, who will be the ones who can help you ultimately!

I would also recommend that you spend a few weeks without uploading new models, I believe (and it is a personal observation) that the majority (not all) of those affected are profiles with disparate products that are not focused on something specific.

Algorithms and AIs usually work with profiles, and having a changing or unclear profile can make it very difficult for products to fit a specific search.

The same thing happens with the Tags, it is better to put only a few specific ones than to try to cover too many sectors, since in the end other more specific products will have preference in the more specific searches.

So, if our profiles stop changing for a while, it is likely that the system will be able to fit them better in searches.

If you take a look at my profile you will understand what I am saying, the sales I get are very specific each month, in one I may sell virgins and in the next I only sell skulls. Obviously they are very different things and I rarely have very "mixed" months.

And I repeat, these are just my own observations, perhaps an opinion, but it seems to have worked for me.

To understand how big the problem is, try to find a review about a model that was added after September 2023. I have not been able to find one. This means that almost no one sees these models. And as far as I understand, they are not going to do anything about it

I also find that the results of search engines today are much worse than before, especially since it is integrated with AI. My new models are nearly impossible to discover if I don't manually drive traffic from external sites by myself.

I’m confused, when I type “octopus” in the search field I see your nice looking octopus right there on the first page thumbnail 4. Same for “jumping spider” (love that work bytheway's) yours is right there first page thumbnail 5, can’t get any better or I’m missing some thing?

About your brain model, that one indeed seems to have some visibility problem, maybe try switch the first thumbnail to match it to your competitors? If CGt AI is looking at your front page image, it may not label yours as the typical brain that fits that category? It fits more the keyphrase limbic system I believe. Also if you would add those keywords your model would probably pop up on first page if someone needed a limbic system, lol, that sounds funny, not intended ;-)

Anyway’s, that AI is doing some funky things sometimes, labeling my motion graphics abstract art stuff as starwars spaceships for example. Minor issue I manually corrected but it reminded me to be very specific or the AI hallucinates something for me.